在开头，请允许我向新浪致以最诚恳的问候和最深刻的鄙视。由于无故丢失帖子的行为，使得我不得不重新开帖子发了。之后的更新也将转到本帖来。
今天更新的帖子是上次未能发出的，来自斯洛文尼亚的占星师，本恩的大作。
Michael Jackson appears to be a tough nut to break. Irrespective of the fact the birthdates were mostly written in 1958, this one remains hidden, and Michael himself did nothing to uncover it neither to help others to solve this. Michael's quote as "after 10.30 pm" is the same as nothing. So, we're in fog yet.
迈克尔·杰克逊似乎是一个颇为棘手的问题。虽然几乎所有人都说他是1958年生，但是出生时间方面还是有问题，他自己也对此不置可否。他说的“晚上十点半后出生”也纯属废话。所以我们仍然是一头雾水。
There are some very different birth times quoted in this topic. So far, searching is limited between 23:53 and 23:29, with many confirmations. But, if I know MJ's story (childhood etc.) and I look at his chart, it simply does not fit to me – father, hiding, money earning, trials and other issues.
在本帖中列举了许多非常不同的生时。目前为止主要集中在23点53分和29分之间，有许多证据可以确定。但是从他的经历和盘上来看，有许多线索显示并不适合。
There was a Scorpio rising mentioned on this forum and rejected immediately, as "impropriate". How come? Did Michael not ruin his appearance, face, skin color and all, as much as nobody did? If Scorpio means "general change", what is Michael's change other than general? I would not reject it so fast …
之前有人提出了上升天蝎，旋即被否决了。为什么呢？难道他并非毁坏了他自己的形容、面貌、肤色以及一切，敢为人之不能为么？如果天蝎座意味着“全面的变化”，那么杰克逊的变化难道还不全面么？我是不能如此迅速地否决的……
I have developed my own solar return timing technique during last 18 years and went to check these birth times, using available bio information. With no available data for his residence before buying and moving to Neverland, Los Olivos, Ca, I limited to events after 1988. I was not satisfied with findings, which did not match my usual work and results with my clients; some events seem to happen a bit earlier, other a bit later. I found Michael's 23:29 chart a bit more fitting than 23:53 or 23:43.
在过去的十八年中，我发展了自己的日返技术，我用这门技术并参考以可以获得的个人信息，去检验这些出生时间。由于在迁居至梦幻庄园之前没有可靠的居住地数据，因此我只使用1988年后事件。我对结果并不如以往般满意，有些事件发生得或前或后。我觉得29分的盘比53或者43分盘略微合适一些。
After a pause I continued from zero, trying to make o profile. A nice game, pure joy. Where a father we are frightened of should be put in the horoscope? In the 8th. And Pluto. 7th in Cancer and Uranus inside both fit, too. 2nd marriage, a quick one (VE 0 UR) and is abroad. Neptunian outcome? Possible. Mars on the 4th cusp, squared – aggressive father. Money? House rulers are placed in the 9th, not bad aspected, and Moon in the 2nd ("plenty of money running through these hands". According to Carol Rushman, 3 aspects of Mercury, 5th ruler, before leaving Leo = 3 children. The time is 17:35 in this case.
略作停顿之后我继续从零开始分析，试图作一概况。这是一个美妙的游戏，完全充满乐趣。令人敬畏的父亲在盘上用什么表示呢？8宫，冥王，以及七宫巨蟹天王都能适合。二婚，快速而且外邦，应该是海王吧？可能火星四宫头也表示好斗的父亲。金钱呢？宫主星在九，无负相，月二（手中流过大量金钱）。根据卡罗尔·拉希曼的说法，五宫主水星在离开狮子座之前有三个相位，代表三个孩子。那么时间就是17点35分了。
Then I got a phone call from a friend I discussed this matter before, and he said "Try with 12:12, I found this time repeatedly". Well, I was careful, but the finding took my breath.
然后我接到了一个之前讨论过这个问题的朋友的电话，他说，“试试12点12分，我再三看到这个时间。”我非常谨慎地看了这个时间，但结果使我屏息。
Here is Scorpio rising – again. No Scorpio look? How could it be? There is Mercury right on MC (question of seconds in time of birth!) and ASC-ruler is conjoined with Sun in 10th, and Sun is in mutual reception with Mercury, not mentioning full and very strong 10th, thus a rich portion of a Capricorn – can we still expect a Scorpio look? This chart is full of hiding: Jupiter is "happy when away from other's eyes" etc. and Neptune in 12th is "living in his own world" – is there anybody else who made "his own world" so much realistic? - And money? Saturn in 2nd is apparently misleading. I'd rather connect it with lack of self-confidence than with money itself, but anyway it is trined with Mercury 0 MC and 2nd ruler, Jupiter, is placed in 12th – nobody in the world shared as much money for charity as MJ. This Jupiter is strong and is not badly aspected, so "plenty of money" is quite possible.
上升在天蝎——又是天蝎。不像？怎么会这样？水星正合中天（秒不确定），命主合日在十宫，日水互容，非常强的十宫，具有相当大一部分摩羯的性质——如此我们还怎么能期待长得像天蝎呢？盘中充满着隐瞒：木星代表着“远离他人时的喜悦”，海王十二代表着“活在自己的世界”——有别人能将自己的世界变得如此现实么？——金钱方面呢？土二显然是一种误导。我宁可认为它代表是缺乏自信而非和金钱本身有关，无论如何，土三合水，二宫主木在十二——世界上没有人像杰克逊这样将如此多的金钱用在慈善上。木星非常强，又没有负相，因此“大量的金钱”是很有可能的。
And I naturally tried to confirm this birth time with "my" solar returns, too. I tried several events and they fit, almost all and quite accurate. Incredible! 1.1.94, spring '93 Oprah show (and consequently success in career), later that year a crisis with drugs and hospital, '95/96 successes and stress-related hospital again, children and so on.
同样，我自然地想用我的日返术去证明这个时间。我试了几个事件，都非常精确地符合。难以置信！93年春，欧帕拉脱口秀的采访（因此而带来事业上的成功），之后是毒品和医院带来的危机事件，95年到96年的成功以及压力带来的再进医院，孩子出生等等。
And, as there goes a saying in my country that "Every Gypsy praises his own horse", one would expect my claiming this BT is correct and my technique is the best. It's not. I spent a wonderful day with astrology being very aware that the outcome usually does not fit to all that what seems very obvious. I did not even try to confirm these "findings" with solar arcs, progressions, transits etc., as I had no time for it; I believe others will do that instead.
在我的国家有句谚语：“敝帚自珍”，我自然希望这个时间是正确的，我的技术是最好的。当然实际并不是。我努力投入占星术，但意识到结果并非总能符合。我也不准备用太阳弧、推运、流年等方式去验证这个发现，因为我没有时间；我想，别人会代替完成这一工作的。
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